This guy:
And as I have noted before a while back and "another guy" has reiterated here as well on this thread......If it is Spiritual Death that has been defeated and it was only Spiritual Death to be defeated at Christ coming which happened in 70AD according to the Hyperpreterist then they must also affirm Pelagianism ( which they already do in their view that Adam was going to die anyways regardless of the fall, yes folks this is Pelagian). Why do I say they must affirm Pelagianism? Simple, Spiritual Death has been defeated THEREFORE noone after 70AD is born in sin! Consequently since noone is born into sin because the Federal heads(Adam) curse of original sin has been removed in the New Adam or the New Federal Head ( Christ) then guess what guys, Sin can only be learned and is no longer an innate curse that we are born with which leads us to sin HENCE we don't need God's grace if we can maintain sinless since we are back to the perfect state of Adam before the fall...... PELAGIANISM we become sinners after we learn to sin through society and then commit the sin. But this whole idea that man is born in sin has no place in a Hyperpreterist paradigm so you can throw their Calvinism right out the window too.
My Response:
Notice that "this guy" offers no scriptural justification for his ridiculous claims. But I guess that’s to be expected from someone who is said to be done.
Scripture declares that death has been defeated.
2 Timothy 1:10 -- but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
Destroyed Death? Huh? How? He’s not talking about physical death here, as Rick is here asserting. Rick asserts that this scripture must be talking about both physical death and spiritual death. But how can that be? Weren’t people still dying? That’s not future tense, but past tense. How could Death be destroyed if people are still dying? Simple, you’ve got the wrong understanding of death. He’s talking about sin-death. So, this is where "this guy" is saying that we have a problem. He’s saying if sin-death is defeated and destroyed(which it was), then shouldn’t there be no more spiritual death and all people be alive, spiritually speaking? But what scripture teaches that? Notice that "this guy" doesn’t offer a single drop.
What does Paul say?
Rom. 8:1-16
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
By "this guys" logic wouldn’t Paul have to be a Pelagian as well? Rick is saying that if I’m saying that Spiritual Death has been destroyed, that no one should be born in sin. But that’s what Paul said! Paul said that Death has been destroyed. He also said that sin has been condemned. Does that therefore mean that there will be no sin in the New Age(this age)? By no means(love when Paul says that)! There is no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS. But those who remain outside(a point I will bring up in a minute), there is still death. Death has been defeated, but solely for those in Christ Jesus.
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
John says that if you have the Son, you have life…if not, you remain lifeless…dead. Does John here mean physically dead? No, what sense would it make if John were speaking of the physically dead, of course they don’t have life John? He means they remain spiritually dead. Something which our Lord had stated:
John 12:46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. If you don't believe in Him, then you remain in darkness, you remain in the grave.
Look at the contrast in Paul’s argument in Rom 8. It’s between those who have a sinful nature, and those who have a spiritual nature. Those who live for the sinful nature, are still dead, and those who live to Christ, are alive. They have been made alive as Paul says in Eph. 2. How is one to gain this spiritual nature? Through faith in Christ. Therefore, those who, even in this New Covenant Age, do not have faith in Christ, remain dead in their sins. Because death Spread to all men, but life to those who are in Christ Jesus. Sin’s influence still remains even in the New Heaven and New Earth, something of which "this guy" and "another guy" see as future. Whether you believe that is now or later, you still have sinners in the New Heaven and New Earth. Even in the New Jerusalem “Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” Rev. 22:15
And Isaiah gives a picture of the New Heavens and New Earth here:
Is. 65:20
No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isaiah is saying that there are sinners in the New Heaven and New Earth.
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